(START HERE) Gene Odening interview, Part 1 – “The TRIVIUM Method” – #049 (+ video)

Tonight's show is an important one. Without it, it's hard to build on the information presented in the other shows. Here we begin to learn about learning, logic, critical thinking, Hegelian dialectics, Plato, the Trivium, the Quadrivium, the 7 liberal arts, and many other facets of human cognizance.


Gnostic Media’s 1 Year anniversary show!

Tonight’s show is an important one. Without it, it’s hard to build on the information presented in the other shows. Here we begin to learn about learning, logic, critical thinking, Hegelian dialectics, Plato, the Trivium, the Quadrivium, the 7 liberal arts, and many other facets of human cognizance.

My guest is Gene Odening.
This is the story of the 3 successive stages of the “Philosophic Life” which almost all of us live. Some of us live it consciously, others, not so much.
Gene’s story is one of good fortune. Early in adolescence he was given the tools to recognize and to pursue the Philosophic Life, which he undertook to do, not as a vocation but as a serious hobbyist. This is part of what the talk is about, defining those tools and following time-tested ways of applying them.

Gene lived through the first part, the Stage of Preparing For Life, in a fashion which the ancient Vedic Sages called: “Learning by grazing through the fields of the Brahma (the Creator God), in sobriety, and with a guru”. He even had his own guru! He graduated from this stage in a less than sober state. At age 18 . . . He ingested the Eucharist in fact, rather than only in effigy, and had his Crown Chakra opened. That is, he had his mind blown on large doses of LSD.
When he was 20 years old, he began the second part, the Stage of Receiving From Life. This is when he began his vocational career and started his family life. Life was good. He and his wife traveled many parts of the English speaking world scouring the libraries in particular; she reading her beloved fiction; he in the reference and antiquarian sections. His quest was to find out what Money was. Money is a very elusive thing. As ghostly as it is, it takes up much of our life’s time and energy. By happenstance, in pursuit of its secrets, almost all other known topics come into view for a closer examination, including Philosophy, a treasure beyond measure.
As he reached the age of about 56, he had the realization that he was now in the final stage, the Stage of Giving Back To Life. This is when one should properly become the elder advisor, not ‘offering’ advise, but giving of it freely when asked. It is also the time of beginning one’s journey through mentality. This is the time of: “Examining a life which has been worth living”, as the Greek sage Socrates counceled.

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  10 comments for “(START HERE) Gene Odening interview, Part 1 – “The TRIVIUM Method” – #049 (+ video)

  1. Robert Paquette
    February 20, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    First of all, I’d like to thank you for sharing this learning system. I think it’s very interesting and exciting.

    But, secondly, I’d like to call you out on your use of a straw man argument to dismiss people who believe in Jesus because of the witness of, as you said: “one book”. The bible (which means books), regardless of which version (or perversion) you may be referencing, is comprised of more than one book. Most protestant bibles contain 66 (a curious number) books; the Tyndale, 74 books; and the catholick (spelling on purpose) 73 books. All of the books in the Old Testament section prophesy of and or display types and shadows of the Messiah to come. All of the books in the New Testament testify that Jesus (actually Yeshua) fulfilled those prophesies. Whether or not you believe the testimony of the 66, 74, or 73 books, is irrelevant to me. But, that you violated the straw man principle which you taught me, is what I dislike. Now, I will not, as they say, throw out the baby with the bath water, and dismiss everything you say, thereby being guilty of an Ad Hominem Tu Quoque fallacy – again, thanks to you.

    Keep up the good work, and thanks again.

    Robert

  2. Michael
    July 3, 2013 at 2:00 am

    fascinating STUFF,

  3. Barry
    August 23, 2013 at 1:36 am

    I would add to Paquette’s point that not only is the Bible made up of multiple books, but that those books are also written by multiple authors from different nations, different time periods and who spoke different languages. Despite the varying and seemingly uncoordinated viewpoints with distance between them in location and time the varying accounts taken together present a theme consistent enough to be considered as one viewpoint, or “one book” as you put it.

  4. Attila Lendvai
    February 13, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    “I’d like to call you out on your use of a straw man [...] The bible [...] is comprised of more than one book.”

    why does that matter? the idea is the same: something is true because it’s written somewhere, in one, or in 66 books, doesn’t matter.

    “But, that you violated the straw man principle [...] I will not [...] dismiss everything you say, thereby being guilty of an Ad Hominem Tu Quoque fallacy”

    no, that’s a fallacy fallacy: dismissing an entire position as false because the opponent has made a logical fallacy in one of his arguments.

    an ad hominem would be you saying that he’s wrong about god because he stinks.

  5. May 16, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    thank you very much, I’m 30 and very smart learn very much listening and following the links of pateo.nl

    http://youtu.be/R3Ovrhrf9BQ

  6. Robert Hass
    August 6, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    Paquette and Barry – Here’s why the argument regarding logic fallacy in support of the Bible is actually a logical fallacy in your argument – your understanding and acceptance of the Bible as “Truth” or the “word of God” is based entirely on “FAITH” – there is no irrefutable, concrete evidence that proves the Bible to be the “TRUTH”. That’s not to say that the Bible is not the “Truth” or the “word of God” – but, it’s all based on one’s faith to believe the Bile to be the truth – there;s no way to prove that. Faith is NOT reason i.e. reason is the employment of logic in the application of critical thought/questioning. Even though I believe our ability to reason is a gift from God reason still does not and cannot prove the Bible to be truth – although I have faith that it is the truth – with a grain of salt. God Bless

    • Robin
      October 21, 2014 at 9:58 pm

      Thanks for posting this information.

      To Robert and Christians in general:

      Writing from a Christian view point, I used to believe that Christianity was all about faith, that nothing about God could be proven, only believed. I know longer see it that way.

      God can be tested and proven. He tells us to taste the Lord and see that He is good. He also asks us the reason with him. He says he reveals his wrath for those who hold the truth of his existence (hold meaning “suppress”). His wrath is revealed because he makes it very obvious that he exists in creation, but there are those who are “willingly ignorant.” Just as a beautiful work of art has an obvious artist behind it (it would not be logical to assume it painted itself), creation has an obvious creator. The reason for their ignorance is that by acknowledging his existence, they by default become accountable to him. You are very right to assume that your ability to be logical comes from him. He is not only logical, but very wise. He says that a “fool says in his heart there is no God.”

      One way to prove God exists is to seek him. He says that those who seek him will find him. It also is true that some who do not seek him find him. Another way to prove God is try the spirits. The Bible says to try the spirits and see if they be of God. There are clear definitions of the spirit of God and the spirit of anti-God. Given those clear definitions, one can logically assume which spirits originate from him and which do not.

      Lastly, God promises to give us his spirit. God says everyone who receives the spirit of God is born again. When you are born again, you give evidence of this. In the book of Acts, those who received the spirit gave a birth cry and spoke a new language that they had been given supernaturally. If you would like to prove if this scripture is true, you just follow the steps given. The steps are very simple. If you repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That’s it. If it happens, you can prove that receiving the spirit is possible. If not, you can assume that it may not be possible, or that you did not fully apply the steps.

      Everyone I know who has applied the first 2 steps always receives the spirit of God, thereby proving that it is possible to receive God’s spirit. The evidence is that they are given the ability to speak languages they have not learned in the natural way. The fruit of the spirit is love.

      Prove God. He’s provable. I dare you. Double dare you.

      Love, joy, and peace to all.

    • Jeff
      October 25, 2014 at 7:02 pm

      I love reading peoples posts about faith, religion, and/or related truth. All of these abstract subjects are up to the individual. Truth in the abstract is nothing more than what we choose to believe… Most “TRUTH” is subject to conditions (perceptions) which we may interpret differently as individuals. The even more important/influential “TRUTHS” of ideological, philosophical, and moral standings are often clouded by emotion and are typically not in fact “TRUTH”.
      For example, The Bible states that theft is bad. Therefore, is a thief good or bad? If someone steals necessities from you is it bad? Is theft good or bad? Is a thief who steals for starving children bad? If someone places themselves in harms way for others, with nothing to gain for themselves is it good or bad?
      Are multinational biotech companies creating possibly toxic GMO crops that may alter the natural genome of existing crops? Can GMO crops create a dangerous spread of invasive species resistant to herbicide? Should GMOs be stopped?
      Can Biotech firms create GMO crops that may grow with less water? Can GMO crops be created with added nutritional values? Could GMO crops be used to help curve starving populations? Could GMO crops be responsibly grown and harvested to feed malnourished populations?
      Can situation, perception, or outside influence change truth? A definition of truth summarized is… Truth=Fact. Ultimate facts cannot change. Truth however, usually does or can very easily. Is the world flat? The truth to this question is different depending on who and/or when you ask it. Ultimately, logic may be used to find truths. However, with limited perception we all can find but only limited truth. Some areas we are well equipped to perceive. Did the ball bounce……..? Did Tim lie when he told me his dog was as big as a bear? Did I just get hit with a rock? We can easily perceive these answers.
      Was Jesus an amazing man who taught a righteous lifestyle? Was Jesus a divine messenger of god? Was Jesus the son of the almighty creator? Was Jesus the living breathing form of the one true god on planet earth sent here to guide his creations to the kingdom of heaven for an eventual war against the forces of evil? Is Jesus the god? No person alive today can prove the truth to these questions either way… We simply don’t have the perspective, perception, or abilities… However we can decide to believe whatever we want in these regards and even accept them as “TRUTH” if we wish… I will say this though people as a whole, as a group don’t know sh-t. there is lots more to our world that we cannot perceive than we are able to acknowledge.

  7. Robert Hass
    August 6, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    I might add – my understanding of God is a force of goodness, that some of us call God, that exists in opposition to evil and intervenes in life to that end i.e. to push back against evil using us as the weapon. Evil is created via the misapplication of our ability to reason. I have no idea what form this force of goodness takes – whether it be a supreme-being, a supreme-intelligence, extraterrestrial, extra-dimensional, or… ? I just don’t know I do know that a force of evil exists so, therefore a force of goodness exists and I am on its side. From my research of the history of the Bible’s existence, I’ve discovered that during the dark-ages the Bible went missing for 400 years (est). It’s hard to believe that the Bible has not been man-ipulated, by men with the desire to control mankind. The modern Bible mostly used in the western world is called the King James Version – question: how many versions of the truth is there – or can there possibly be? I tend to use the Bible to learn how to navigate life to act on the side of that force of goodness. If I first and foremost live to do no harm to another I will be rewarded in the end with some sort of further existence – if that’s possible. The only thing that I see that the Bible proves is that there is a force of goodness that many of us call God – and that force of goodness is most powerful – all about knowledge and exists everywhere.

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